question about NG popularity

re:
Could it be that Python is more difficult to learn

No, not at all, Pythons big claim to fame is the fact that is very easy to
learn (and hsa great docs). This alos (more so) applies to coldfusion. So
what you say is very likely not to be the cause of this.

With Python, all I could think of is that it is used in a wider range of
applications - not just web dev, which PHP is pretty much dedicated to.
Python folk are doing all sorts of stuff, not just web dev. But coldfusion,
thats just web dev, surely thats not more popular than php? I find that very
hard to believe.

I guess the questions is: How good an indication of popularity is the
business / activity of it's forums / newsgroups? I thought it was meant to
be a great indicator, but with php, if this theory were true, then php is
not looking very poular at all? I also question the divide between the 2 php
newsgroups, whats with that? Why dont we have, say, a 'general discussion'
forum and a 'advanced topics' forum. So not only does php appear unpopular,
but a little divided, if the newsgriups were the sole indicator.




"J.O. Aho" wrote in message

 > worzel wrote:
  >> Does anybody know why the Pyhon Newsgroup is so much more popular than
  >> both of the php newsgroups? My impression was that PHP was wildly
  >> opular - so I do not understand the seeming discrepency here? Python NG
  >> is over 13,000, while PHP is about 3,000.
 >
  >> I have use TIOBE to try and gague popularity, but this just says PHP was
  >> like the number 3 or 4 language on the planet. Whats with the Newsgroup
  >> activity seemingly contradicting this?
 >
 > Could it be that Python is more difficult to learn, so people has to post
 > a lot more and ask questions than it is for php, whcih is quite easy to
 > learn and have good online documentation.
 >
 >
 > //Aho
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity 

worzel wrote:

 > I guess the questions is: How good an indication of popularity is the
 > business / activity of it's forums / newsgroups? I thought it was meant to
 > be a great indicator, but with php, if this theory were true, then php is
 > not looking very poular at all? I also question the divide between the 2 php
 > newsgroups, whats with that?

Why not include search engine results too, there you would see that python
ain't that populare, only 11,500,000 hits vs PHPs 56,900,000 (google.com).

I don't think you can messure popularity like that, you will miss all those
who sit at home do their code and don't need to ask the questions on a
newsgroup. At the same time you have a large amount of forums on the net,
which results in less posts on newsgroups.


  > Why dont we have, say, a 'general discussion'
  > forum and a 'advanced topics' forum. So not only does php appear unpopular,
  > but a little divided, if the newsgriups were the sole indicator.

As far as my news provider, there is 22 php newsgroups, there are 14 python
newsgroups, and none of them are diveded into "basic"/"advanced", people just
don't have access to all newsgroups, so they can't just pick which ever
newsgroup, they have to pick one of those their news provider offers them.
Some people may not like high traffic newsgroups, so they select a more quiet
one which has enough competent people to get good replys, others may want to
stay at a national newsgroup as they may not know english. I think you
simplify things all to much.


//Aho
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity 

re:
I think you simplify things all to much.

No, I was not saying I believed that this was indicative of anything, I was
just wondering what the seeming discrepenacy was. I am fully aware that PHP
is extremely popular.

I did not know there were 22 PHP newsgroups, a recent poster said there were
only 2 main ones. clearly my ISP is not carrying many of them.

The google search seems to reflect what I would have expected to see. Also,
TIOBE index does too. <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.tiobe.com" target="_blank">www.tiobe.com</a>




"J.O. Aho" wrote in message

 > worzel wrote:
 >
  >> I guess the questions is: How good an indication of popularity is the
  >> business / activity of it's forums / newsgroups? I thought it was meant
  >> to be a great indicator, but with php, if this theory were true, then php
  >> is not looking very poular at all? I also question the divide between the
  >> 2 php newsgroups, whats with that?
 >
 > Why not include search engine results too, there you would see that python
 > ain't that populare, only 11,500,000 hits vs PHPs 56,900,000 (google.com).
 >
 > I don't think you can messure popularity like that, you will miss all
 > those who sit at home do their code and don't need to ask the questions on
 > a newsgroup. At the same time you have a large amount of forums on the
 > net, which results in less posts on newsgroups.
 >
 >
  > > Why dont we have, say, a 'general discussion'
  > > forum and a 'advanced topics' forum. So not only does php appear
  > > unpopular,
  > > but a little divided, if the newsgriups were the sole indicator.
 >
 > As far as my news provider, there is 22 php newsgroups, there are 14
 > python newsgroups, and none of them are diveded into "basic"/"advanced",
 > people just don't have access to all newsgroups, so they can't just pick
 > which ever newsgroup, they have to pick one of those their news provider
 > offers them. Some people may not like high traffic newsgroups, so they
 > select a more quiet one which has enough competent people to get good
 > replys, others may want to stay at a national newsgroup as they may not
 > know english. I think you simplify things all to much.
 >
 >
 > //Aho
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity 

worzel wrote:
  >>I think you simplify things all to much.
 >
 > No, I was not saying I believed that this was indicative of anything, I was
 > just wondering what the seeming discrepenacy was. I am fully aware that PHP
 > is extremely popular.

IMHO it's like you would stand at a Texaco in Austin and count which is more
populare a Vaz Lada or Trabant, you miss a lot of data when limiting your sources.


//Aho
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity 

re:
you miss a lot of data when limiting your sources.

I was not limiting my sources! Like I just explained, I know how popular php
is. I was simply querying what I thought was an anomaly with the newsgroup
figures. I never put it down to low popularity, I was simply asking what the
anomaly was.

So the comments:

re:
you miss a lot of data when limiting your sources.

and :

re:
I think you simplify things all to much.

.... tell me that you are not really reading my posts! I told you as much,
that the newsgroup activity theory was not indicative of actual low
popularity, when I mentioned that TIOBE reflects what I actually believe. I
hope you are no longer misunderstanding. Thanks for your posts.




"J.O. Aho" wrote in message

 > worzel wrote:
   >>>I think you simplify things all to much.
  >>
  >> No, I was not saying I believed that this was indicative of anything, I
  >> was just wondering what the seeming discrepenacy was. I am fully aware
  >> that PHP is extremely popular.
 >
 > IMHO it's like you would stand at a Texaco in Austin and count which is
 > more populare a Vaz Lada or Trabant, you miss a lot of data when limiting
 > your sources.
 >
 >
 > //Aho
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity 

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:52:28 +0800, worzel wrote:

 > Does anybody know why the Pyhon Newsgroup is so much more popular than both
 > of the php newsgroups? My impression was that PHP was wildly popular - so I
 > do not understand the seeming discrepency here? Python NG is over 13,000,
 > while PHP is about 3,000.

13,000 what versus 3,000 what?
Postings?
Unique posters?
Persistent trolls? ( Bingo!, maybe? )

If postings -- one has to ask what newsserver you're using and
what their aging process is for _each_ of the individual ng's you
are reviewing.

Grind your teeth, if you wish. But, I believe COBOL is the most
used language on this planet, still.

As to what's _popular_, only the most insecure focus on _that_ attribute.
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity 

Allodoxaphobia wrote:
 > On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:52:28 +0800, worzel wrote:
 >
  >> Does anybody know why the Pyhon Newsgroup is so much more popular
  >> than both of the php newsgroups? My impression was that PHP was
  >> wildly popular - so I do not understand the seeming discrepency
  >> here? Python NG is over 13,000, while PHP is about 3,000.
 >
 > 13,000 what versus 3,000 what?
 > Postings?
 > Unique posters?
 > Persistent trolls? ( Bingo!, maybe? )
 >
 > If postings -- one has to ask what newsserver you're using and
 > what their aging process is for _each_ of the individual ng's you
 > are reviewing.
 >
 > Grind your teeth, if you wish. But, I believe COBOL is the most
 > used language on this planet, still.

<shiver/> Mind you, iirc, cobol did have good file and db handling features.
I still don't know ehy I needed to put an asterix in column 60(?).


 > As to what's _popular_, only the most insecure focus on _that_
 > attribute.

--
Andrew @ Rockface
np: Champion - The Truth [stopped]
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.rockface-records.co.uk" target="_blank">www.rockface-records.co.uk</a>
 >> Stay informed about: question about NG popularity